tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post7215454890412881468..comments2024-03-27T08:40:31.785-06:00Comments on Clayton Cramer.: I Sometimes Wonder What Drives The Fierce Anti-Christian Sentiment of the LeftClayton Cramerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03258083387204776812noreply@blogger.comBlogger94125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-68889611405441971632010-12-21T11:03:12.883-07:002010-12-21T11:03:12.883-07:00patwell5641 said...
> Christian institutions w...patwell5641 said...<br /><br />> Christian institutions were pillars of the<br />> reactionary, authoritarian, and repressive Old<br />> Order in Europe <br /><br /><i>No, not really, even though that's the cliche. For several centuries being a intellectual and being religious were one and the same thing.</i><br /><br />Intellectualism is not intrinsically contradictory to reaction, authoritarianism, and repression. Legions of "clerks" have been grovelling toadies to power.<br /><br />In Europe, the institutional Church was an arm of the state (whether Protestant, Roman Catholic, or Orthodox). Churches were funded by state-collected taxes, and priests and bishops were state functionaries. (Catholic clergy were nominally subordinate to Rome, but there were endless legal and political battles between the Papacy and secular governments over the scope of Papal authority.) State power was regularly used by the Church to suppress religious dissent.<br /><br />And the clergy, almost without exception, were loyal to and preached in support of the political order - monarchy and aristocracy. Look up the phrase "throne-and-altar conservatism". That sentiment was a powerful force in Europe well into the 20th century (see Francoist Spain or Imperial Russia, or the anti-Dreyfusard Right and its successors in France).<br /><br />The universities are cited. Yes, the universities were founded and supported by the Church - but even within the universities, the Church-appointed authorities favored conformity to orthodoxy and tradition over innovation and free-ranging inquiry.Rich Rostromhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13262703348236110420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-16698228261183526932010-12-21T08:35:49.891-07:002010-12-21T08:35:49.891-07:00The problem, if there is one, is that many Christi...The problem, if there is one, is that many Christians don't understand the theology that they themselves profess. <br /><br />Given, the poll may have produced faulty results; but, just take for granted for a moment that the poll is accurate, what does this say? <br /><br />This says that 60% of the Church does not even correctly understand Biblical theology! Yes, the Jews at the time of Christ crucified Him. But, does that correctly translate into the fact that they can never be forgiven? I think not. Here's why:<br /><br />1) Jesus' own words: "But Jesus was saying, "Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing " And they cast lots, dividing up His garments among themselves." (Luke 23:34). Christ, our mediator with the Father, asks for forgiveness for those who crucified Him, who of course, were the Jews.<br /><br />2) More importantly, Jesus Himself says: <br /><br />"No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again This commandment I received from My Father." (John 10:18)<br /><br />Again in the Gospel of John, we read: <br /><br />"Later, knowing that everything had now been finished, and so that Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, 'I am thirsty.' A jar of wine vinegar was there, so they soaked a sponge in it, put the sponge on a stalk of the hyssop plant, and lifted it to Jesus’ lips. When he had received the drink, Jesus said, 'It is finished.' With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit." (John 19:28-30)<br /><br />And also: <br /><br />"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit." (John 12:24)<br /><br />Here's the point: Christ came, born of a woman, God in flesh, to "seek and save that which is lost." (Luke 19:10) <br /><br />He, being the Soveriegn LORD over all creation - no one took His life from Him - He voluntarily gave it up, that He might be the propitiation for the sin of many. <br /><br />A correct understanding of Biblical Theology clears this right up, and quickly. The Jews didn't kill Christ - He gave His own life up for those whom He would draw to Himself, and grant forgiveness and everlasting life. <br /><br />Jesus is the sacrificial, spotless Lamb of God, who came to take away the sins of the world, and Who now reigns on the throne over His Kingdom, forever. This was all a part of God's plan from the beginning, and He used the Pharisees, the Scribes, and the Sanhedrin for His Good and Perfect purposes in His plan to reconcile His creation to Himself. <br /><br />Praise to the LORD of Hosts and creation, for He is Good - His steadfast love endures forever!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01415836432858814526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-89210911571168487132010-12-20T20:04:49.337-07:002010-12-20T20:04:49.337-07:00TO: All
RE: mrogow
Generally speaking, I tend to ...TO: All<br />RE: mrogow<br /><br />Generally speaking, I tend to take people at their word. However, when their report contradicts the vast amount of information available, I ask for a way to corroborate their report.<br /><br />When they become evasive, e.g., do not respond directly to simple questions, I tend to lower their credibility. <br /><br />Such has just happened with mrogow. I asked them what city and state these 'attacks' occur in. They are evasive in their response. <br /><br />In light of that and all the reports we've had here as well as personal experience these last 60-odd years.....<br /><br />....well....you know....<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Chuck(le)<br />[Military intelligence is not an oxymoron. Except to real morons.]]Chuck Peltohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00407516830005550495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-32455139561235836192010-12-20T19:36:01.029-07:002010-12-20T19:36:01.029-07:00Virginia Postrel,
Your comment about your convers...Virginia Postrel,<br /><br />Your comment about your conversion is somewhat confusing; were you converted to Judaism or to Christianity? A few thoughts on your comments.<br /><br />(1) It isn’t just Jews who are ignorant about Christian theology, most people who are not Christian share the same ignorance which leads to misunderstanding. What’s interesting about that is that Americans are overwhelmingly Christian. Christianity permeates our culture so I’m curious why this ignorance is so widespread. It’s similar to Liberalism vs. Conservatism. Because the media culture is so overwhelmingly Liberal, conservatives understand the Liberal viewpoint well – it surrounds us and permeates our every waking moment - while the Liberal mass media hires reporters to report on Conservatives as if we are some strange remote tribe who have weird habits.<br />(2) You must know some very old Jews. I’m referring to the ones who spent centuries suffering under the Christian knout. Forgive me if the reference of so many people, Blacks, Jews, Aztecs, whoever, who claim to have been persecuted for centuries drives me up the wall. If you have been wronged, by all means seek justice, but invoking your long dead ancestors is a cheap way to achieve victim status. In Liberal-land victim status allows you to proclaim your moral superiority to white, male, Christian heterosexuals. <br />(3) You apparently have little knowledge of Christian theology yourself if you think Christians believe that God’s going to torture you for eternity. Thanks for demonstrating your own ignorance.<br />(4) Finally, this is the Christmas season, not the Winter Solstice Season, or Frosty the Snowman Season, or even the season which coincides with the commemoration of a holiday celebrated by roughly 1.5% of the American people. If you are uncomfortable with that I’m just going to have to live with the guilt that the celebration of MY faith is interpreted as in insult to you.<br /><br />Merry Christmas.Moneyrunnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12940253500799383224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-6498759764172004602010-12-20T13:45:56.226-07:002010-12-20T13:45:56.226-07:00The poll question you wrote about is pretty sadly ...The poll question you wrote about is pretty sadly worded. If you want to know why the difference between traditional and evangelical views on Jews are different, see "replacement theology". In a nutshell, Catholics and Lutherans (at least; there may be others, it's not a Catholic/Protestant issue) view Christian gentiles as replacing the Jews in the covenant - basically they say the Jews messed up and now it's the gentile's turn. Thus there is animosity toward Jews; see writings by Luther advocating violence toward Jews to coerce them into converting. Evangelicals, on the other hand, regard gentiles as being grafted into the covenant, and the Jews as still being God's chosen people and timepiece. Evangelicals will see prophecy about Israel as being literally about Israel; other traditional churches will see prophesy about Israel as being about the Christian church. If Israel is replaced in the Bible, dangerous ideas are formed, and I can see why Jews would be nervous about Christians who buy replacement theology - Jews may as well be forgotten. But Evangelicals are friends of Israel.<br />Replacement Theology, or Supersessionism, is a whole different way of interpreting the Bible.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15936447068973568057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-89482435347929274582010-12-20T12:36:29.627-07:002010-12-20T12:36:29.627-07:00I grew up in a Baptist congregation during the ...I grew up in a Baptist congregation during the '60's and '70's, hardly the most liberal time for that Protestant sect, and I can't remember any preaching denouncing the Jews. I distinctly remember at least one sermon denouncing the idea that the Jews as a people were "to blame" for the crucifixion.<br /><br />By the '70's, I heard a lot of interest in jewish customs, history and respect for the jewish faith as a foundation of Christian belief albeit one that was replaced by Christian doctrine ( as one would expect a Christian church to be preaching ).Robinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05699652902909032781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-31370363845409801342010-12-20T09:26:10.096-07:002010-12-20T09:26:10.096-07:00I haven't seen anything at church to suggest t...I haven't seen anything at church to suggest that any of the members at this church, or my previous one, are anti-semites. In fact, most are very clearly the opposite.<br /><br />However, outside of church, I will say that one of the biggest reasons I gave up on online gaming was that I got tired of just how large a portion of the "25 and under" crowd there were disgusting little bigots. Seeing things like "Blizzard jewed me with the latest patch" gets very old, very quickly.Laughingdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07788824586959334168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-48520758951409871872010-12-20T08:20:29.791-07:002010-12-20T08:20:29.791-07:00Just one more comment: I didn't mean to sugges...Just one more comment: I didn't mean to suggest that the slurs come from evangelicals only. I never asked my kids what group was insulting them at the time. I suppose since we are in a hispanic majority city that's where the most insults come from, but honestly, I just never asked. The death threats and violent beatings, etc., always come from the palestinians. Since I was raised an Army Brat (and then married a soldier) all this came as a profound shock to me.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12050474115694089288noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-41143852396507672692010-12-20T07:54:30.428-07:002010-12-20T07:54:30.428-07:00TO: M. Simon
RE: 'Goyim' R Us
People can ...TO: M. Simon<br />RE: 'Goyim' R Us<br /><br />People can call me whatever they like. Even if they think it an insult. After all, as I'm confident you've seen me say on other blogs....<br /><br /><b>I've been abused by the BEST!</b><br /><br />Besides, if they wish to insult my religious beliefs, as some Wag put it around 2000 years ago....<br /><br /><b>Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake.</b> -- Luke 6:22 (KJV)<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Chuck(le)<br />[When the stones get thrown;<br />They either miss;<br />Or they turn to glory. -- <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckd5Sjcv-Wg" title="Step Up to the Microphone" rel="nofollow"><b>Newsboys, Step Up to the Microphone</b></a><br /><br />P.S. Thank you Amy, for honoring me thusly.....Chuck Peltohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00407516830005550495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-40645485564533650482010-12-20T07:14:05.809-07:002010-12-20T07:14:05.809-07:00TO: M. Simon
RE: [OT] Homie??!?!
....my High Scho...TO: M. Simon<br />RE: [OT] Homie??!?!<br /><br /><i>....my High School was considered to be one of the top 10 in the nation. (in Nebraska no less)</i> -- M. Simon<br /><br />Which school was that? And when?<br /><br />I did the late 50s in Lincoln. The early 60s in Belleview, a.k.a. Offutt AFB.<br /><br />UNL in the 70s. Class of '75.<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Chuck(le)<br />[Go Big Red!]Chuck Peltohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00407516830005550495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-3236718620330857362010-12-20T00:43:16.054-07:002010-12-20T00:43:16.054-07:00The question was why Jews think Christians, specif...The question was why Jews think Christians, specifically traditional/evangelical Protestants, are anti-semitic NOT whether the Protestants think they're anti-semitic. Based on my experience as a Jewish convert who grew up a Presbyterian in the Bible Belt, I'd say there are three basic reasons: <br /><br />1) Jews know next to nothing about Protestant theology and have spent centuries suffering the consequences of blood libels and convert-or-die (or convert-and-die-anyway) Catholicism, not to mention various schoolyard bullies.<br /><br />2) Even if they'll hide you in the basement from the Nazis, those devout Christians nonetheless have no problem believing God will torture you for all eternity. Personally, I can live with that. I just think it's ridiculous. But the conviction bothers a lot of Jews, as does the evangelism that springs from it.<br /><br />3) When businesses try to be polite to Jews, among others, by such simple inclusive efforts as saying, Happy Holidays (which includes everything from Thanksgiving to New Year's) rather than Merry Christmas, they are denounced for waging a War on Christmas. If so, the mall music suggests Christmas has won.Virginia Postrelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04579721824966669024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-48007947053903065782010-12-19T23:29:01.965-07:002010-12-19T23:29:01.965-07:00I think that part of the problem here is that the ...<i>I think that part of the problem here is that the term "anti-Semitism" is used to cover everything from the sort of mild bigotry which every group in America once(?) held for all the others</i><br /><br />A lot of Jews were leaders in the anti-Jim Crow movement. I'm not sure of the history but I believe Jews were instrumental in setting up the NAACP. (or maybe another organization of the type).<br /><br />As far as I know Jews were the only group in America subject to quotas in educational institutions.<br /><br />In fact the Jews have drifted from the Blacks over Black support for quotas. (Affirmative Action)<br /><br />As to Jewish bigotry. "Goyim" was always said with a sneer or irony in my home. Or sometimes more like "Goyim?!" So yeah. Bigotry is human. When you get civilized you endeavor to give it up. Sometimes it takes 40 or 60 years.<br /><br />Teaching hate is one of the most pernicious things humans do. Since consanguinity relations are most common in human behavior (there is even an equation for it). It takes a LOT of effort to go beyond supporting one's genes. That is what is so amazing about 1776.<br /><br />You see that in the current political line up. In other words - Jews support Democrats because Jews support Democrats. Or as my mother once put it "Why do you support Republicans? What have they ever done for you?" I tried to explain that Republicans have better ideas. Generally. She wasn't buying it.M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-33500344512465621962010-12-19T23:01:07.635-07:002010-12-19T23:01:07.635-07:00Perhaps the Christians being surveyed are simply p...<i>Perhaps the Christians being surveyed are simply providing a straightforward claim that Jews are not exempt from the requirements of salvation as listed in Christian doctrine.</i><br /><br />There is going to be friction. You see I do not need saving. You can't imagine how offputting it is to hear that I do. I don't need my sins to be forgiven. What I need to do is to get busy and right any wrongs I have committed. <br /><br />"Jesus saves, Moses invests" is more true than you know.M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-21669674268010521742010-12-19T22:49:49.178-07:002010-12-19T22:49:49.178-07:00Clayton,
I wonder if "can Jesus ever be forg...Clayton,<br /><br />I wonder if "can Jesus ever be forgiven for being a Jew" be a counter to the counter to the Christ Killer meme.<br /><br />Second: the Jewish religion has more in common with Buddhism than with religions of faith.<br /><br />I was brought up Orthodox and it was pounded into us that sins against G-d would be forgiven. Sins of faith were relatively inconsequential. <br /><br />It was repeatedly repeated that it was sins against our fellow man that were paramount. The Day of Atonement is not about getting right with G-d, it was about getting right with our fellow man. Righting wrongs. Healing breeches. <br /><br />Put simply Christianity focuses on faith. Judaism focuses on works. (not entirely true on either side)<br /><br />When I lived in Chicago a Jewish friend said in effect that it would be easier for him to become a Buddhist than to become a Christian. <br /><br />To give some idea of what it means culturally. I have been a successful electronics engineer (self taught), I was a tiny but significant part of the microcomputer revolution (a board I designed went into the world's first BBS - I helped the guys who did it with some hardware/software problems.) Mom still respects doctors more. She doesn't come right out and say it. But she gushes over doctors. I've never heard her gush over engineers.<br /><br />You can be a Jewish atheist. I don't believe that is a possible combination in Christianity.<br /><br />WV: nosync Yep.M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-44343039793718403182010-12-19T22:27:28.705-07:002010-12-19T22:27:28.705-07:00The answer to why so many Christians would believe...The answer to why so many Christians would believe that Jews cannot be forgiven until they accept Christ is simple. Christians beleive that the only way ANYONE can be forgiven of their sins is through accepting Christ. Duh. <br /><br />It is like an incident I recall from my junior high school days. The local police did a survey that discovered some astounding percentage of students (over 80% if I recall) in my grade had "taken drugs." Just the week before we had spent an entire period in Health Class on the definition of a "drug" which included such items as aspirin, antibiotics, ibuprophen, etc. In both cases the polster is suprised because in his ignorance he's actually asked a different question than he thought.J. Random Americanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07845254845412693569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-56308529222939931582010-12-19T22:04:01.053-07:002010-12-19T22:04:01.053-07:00Let me add that schools as Protestant indoctrinati...Let me add that schools as Protestant indoctrination centers (you can look up the origins of the public school systems) was still somewhat in effect in the 50s and 60s. I was forced to attend assemblies where songs such as "Jesus Loves Me" were common fare. I resented it. (BTW some of this was in a High School where 1/4 of the students were Jewish). Let me add that at the time my High School was considered to be one of the top 10 in the nation. (in Nebraska no less)<br /><br />It took me decades to overcome the bias this caused. And I'm still fierce about making and keeping public schools secular institutions. For all our sakes. <br /><br />It is rather instructive to be a minority in a culture. You get a different perspective.M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-55041927786032080672010-12-19T21:50:08.128-07:002010-12-19T21:50:08.128-07:00Let me add my own anecdotal evidence.
I grew up...Let me add my own anecdotal evidence. <br /><br />I grew up and am still a member of a Lutheran denomination whichis predominately ethnic German (although my own congregation has a goodly number of hispanic members). <br /><br />Growing up, the <b>only</b> position I ever heard was in accordance with those who have already posted on the Christian belief that every single person, through his or her own sin, is guilty of Christ's death. This was emphasized so strongly that when I first heard of the term "Christ-killer" -- not personally, but in a first-person-singular essay -- I was amazed at the poor theology involved in that accusation.<br /><br />However, since becoming an adult, I have encountered anti-Semitism within the denomination. Almost without exception, it has appeared in the older cohorts: over 65 almost exclusively, and none under age 30. What is interesting, it tends to crop up in those who are more on the political fringes, and, in my experience, more common on the <i>left</i> side of the political spectrum. <br /><br />My observation also is that it is more prevalent in Roman Catholic circles than in Conservative Christian circles, though I've observed it so seldom, it is difficult to make a statistically valid observation.<br /><br />In any event, thanks for the post and food for thought.CBIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02091649490602725142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-20517376023251237752010-12-19T21:43:51.629-07:002010-12-19T21:43:51.629-07:00I grew up for a few years in the South in the late...I grew up for a few years in the South in the late 40s early 50s. (I was around 5) Some kids I was playing with called me "Jew Boy". My mom had to explain to me what it was about. Of course I didn't really understand it until I was older.<br /><br />So American anti-semitism is within my historical experience.<br /><br />Let me add that it was the first and only experience of that kind in my whole life. (I'm 66)M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-642621304745347062010-12-19T21:41:21.502-07:002010-12-19T21:41:21.502-07:00"I think a part of the reason for a transform..."I think a part of the reason for a transformation in anti-semetic feelings was the men who served in WWII."<br /><br />Something similar happened in the South--a number of Southern veterans came back from World War II, hostile to Jim Crow, because of its similarities (although less severe) to the Nazi laws.Clayton Cramerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03258083387204776812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-91804433374179126562010-12-19T21:36:08.036-07:002010-12-19T21:36:08.036-07:00It is historical. Remember all the quotas Jews had...It is historical. Remember all the quotas Jews had to deal with in America? There were even movies about it. <br /><br />BTW anti-Jew feelings in America peaked in 1944. <br /><br />What happened in that and subsequent years to change things? I think pictures from the camps made people pull back.M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-55907080324126334732010-12-19T21:26:19.790-07:002010-12-19T21:26:19.790-07:00"I live in San Antonio, TX. Also, around East..."I live in San Antonio, TX. Also, around Easter without fail someone would also call my kids 'christ killers'."<br /><br />Wow. That just amazes me. Do you know anything about the kids who are saying things like this? Are they coming from evangelical Christian homes? This is so outside the experience of not just myself, but just about everyone I know.Clayton Cramerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03258083387204776812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-55281583058102899452010-12-19T20:42:17.352-07:002010-12-19T20:42:17.352-07:00"When my half-Filipino son was in preschool, ..."When my half-Filipino son was in preschool, a kid told him he had "dirty dark skin" and needed to wash. Certainly, that sort of thing doesn't come out of nowhere either."<br /><br />Where it probably comes from is human nature, revealed more in young children who have yet to be socialized.<br /><br />To be different as a youngster is to face ridicule or more. It doesn't matter if it's ethnicity, skin color, wearing glasses (I'm Clayton's age more or less), or being good at academics and bad at athletics (my curse).<br /><br />In the modern age, accusations of hate are intentionally used as weapons. This produces signals that cause many to interpret all sorts of things as hate, but it really is a tool of the left. Hate is almost as useful as racism, so if they can't get you on one, they'll get you on the other.<br /><br />I have tried to explain on Volokh conspiracy, to the atheist gays who frequent the comment section, that my objection to gays in the military does NOT come from either hared of gays or "homophobia". But it doesn't match their mindset, because hatred is what they want to believe.StormCchaserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02998174514362089471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-26097298756805057642010-12-19T20:03:09.647-07:002010-12-19T20:03:09.647-07:00Amy, Viktor Frankl, who may have suffered worse an...Amy, Viktor Frankl, who may have suffered worse anti-semitism than you, summed up the choice one has in the face of hatred in "Man's Search For Meaning." I won't give away his secret, but highly recommend you read it.<br /> P.S. - it's not burning off a face book request!<br /><br />mrogow, you cite a majority hispanic community with a "vocal palestenian minority but somehow make the problem sound like it's caused by the white-Anglos. Since the phrases you give come directly from the anti-jew propaganda inspired by the Koran, I hope you will reconsider. There really are people who want to kill Jews, but you won't find them in Evangelical Christian circles.<br /><br />I think a part of the reason for a transformation in anti-semetic feelings was the men who served in WWII. They came home and faced a choice: Change their thinking about Jews or be like the Nazis they had just fought. Most chose to change their thinking and the rest were marginalized.dave1310https://www.blogger.com/profile/04027207867299188131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-39111264956929484782010-12-19T19:13:35.406-07:002010-12-19T19:13:35.406-07:00Really, I “owe Amy Alkon” an apology? Why? Isn’t...Really, I “owe Amy Alkon” an apology? Why? Isn’t this the “Advice Goddess?” Might do the Advice Goddess a little good to be less a “Goddess” and give a little less advice, and a little more humble. <br /><br />Secondly, I don’t know if it was vacuous or not, I don’t think just Oprah or Dr. Phil would “spout” it. I think Jesus or a number of Talmudic or even Islamic scholars might suggest it. Or course, they’re “religious folk” so; in your case they may not count.<br /><br />So “Amy” was persecuted/hurt by some? So was my Life Partner. Sooner or later you have to “confront” your tormentor, as my Life Partner confronted his/her abuser. You don’t move on unless you can do it.<br /><br />What you CAN do is remain a nice little “victim” and let your anger keep you warm at night. “Those people hurt you” and you can wrap that around you like a blanket and let those people live in your head, and guide your life, forever. Or you could meet them and see if they’ve changed, and move on as an adult.<br /><br />Lastly, what’s wrong about pointing out that Amy, or you, or me, might not have the “lock” on being the victim, mayhap WE’VE done a little damage ourselves. Gee, who is this person to ask to be Amy’s friend? Why they hurt Amy! Of course, Amy or you or me may have just as thoughtlessly, hurt people, but hey let’s don’t think about that! Let’s just sit on our high horse, be indignant and self-righteous.Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13846399206688807076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-46338343187875680872010-12-19T18:53:13.647-07:002010-12-19T18:53:13.647-07:00...continuing...
That's about the only way th......continuing...<br /><br />That's about the only way that the responses make sense. In that tortured interpretation of the question, one could answer, "Well, yes, Jews would need to accept Christ to be saved; thus, I suppose they aren't functionally forgiven unless they do so."<br /><br />But the funny thing about that is that it ignores two important distinctions. First, a modern Jew doesn't need to be forgiven for crucifying God incarnate. He didn't; that was some other Jews 2,000 years ago. (And not just Jews; I think I recall something about a bunch of Romans being rather heavily involved...!)<br /><br />A modern Jew needs to be forgiven of his Pride, Sloth, Lust, Gluttony, et cetera. But what's that got to do with his being a Jew? Those are the same things we all need to be forgiven of? So why bring up his Jewishness in that context? It's not as if Jews are any more sinful than any other people group.<br /><br />Indeed, in Christian thought the Jews' first century behavior was representative of humanity in general. There isn't anything particularly Jewish about the fact that they crucified Christ. Christianity teaches other group of humans would have reacted to God incarnate in the same way. (In Christianity this notion is a part of a doctrine called "Original Sin.")<br /><br />So the question is confusing, confused, and largely nonsensical from the point-of-view of a Christian. One can hardly be surprised if the results are surprising, because they are meaningless, and meaningless questions produce meaningless results.R.C.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03679435933685771007noreply@blogger.com