tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post439343450756004766..comments2024-03-27T08:40:31.785-06:00Comments on Clayton Cramer.: Solar Power Finally Makes Sense--Even Without the Tax Credits and DeductionsClayton Cramerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03258083387204776812noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-67769156591841783442014-08-03T01:34:28.882-06:002014-08-03T01:34:28.882-06:00Wait, there's an inverter in those pictures? :...Wait, there's an inverter in those pictures? :-)Mauserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11732614352398473302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-35103491557873582592014-08-01T21:14:27.764-06:002014-08-01T21:14:27.764-06:00Thanks for the clarification.
Does your transfer ...Thanks for the clarification.<br /><br />Does your transfer switch only cut in when your house is producing *enough* power? How does it sense that power is being produced. After all, an unloaded power system can have full voltage on it.<br /><br />Or maybe? The inverter in your system adds power to the grid power, and the switch cuts over when the net current draw from the utility is zero or negative?<br /><br />Anyway, this should be interesting. Unfortunately, here in AZ, the summer daytime power drain is huge (in my new house, I estimate about 8kW).<br /><br />As an aside, I'd love to find a numerical explanation of the backing generator issue, as it is hard to separate political info (i.e. skeptics of unreliable sources discuss this, but even though I tend to be on their side, I can't trust them without actual facts and engineering info).StormCchaserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02998174514362089471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-61932275675125184882014-08-01T20:26:39.945-06:002014-08-01T20:26:39.945-06:00I will be connected to the grid, but the goal is n...I will be connected to the grid, but the goal is not to run the meter backward (I will seldom produce that much power relative to my load), but to reduce consumption of Idaho Power's electricity. A second benefit is that if Idaho Power were to go out for an extended period of time, I would still have enough power to pump water from well to tank and then through the house.<br /><br />The trick is that my system will have no batteries to it, and I already have a transfer switch that disconnects me from the grid when my house is producing power (as the backup generator already does). The cost of batteries is also a substantial part of most systems that are completely off the grid.<br /><br />You are correct that utilities have to have generators available to make up for unreliable sources, such as wind or solar, but that is because they need to supply energy to many consumers at once. If my solar has a cloudy day, it is likely a day that my air conditioning isn't running anyway.Clayton Cramerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03258083387204776812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-48068448609669887822014-08-01T17:39:34.443-06:002014-08-01T17:39:34.443-06:00Clayton, thanks for your response.
I'm a litt...Clayton, thanks for your response.<br /><br />I'm a little bit unclear on how your system will operate. Will you be disconnected from the grid, or will it simply reduce (perhaps to zero at times) the draw from the grid?<br /><br />Re: cost of PV panels. In my system costing, they were lower than what you have, and yet the total cost was a lot higher (per peak-watt). That's while I'm asking about details.<br /><br />And, of course, I'm curious in general. I am most interested in the implications of unsubsidized solar power. One cost, which I find hard to quantify, is the iimpact of the variation in load/generation by solar/wind systems. I have read that this requires utilities to run low efficiency "peaking" generators all the time in order to make up for sudden changes in load/input. I'm not a power systems engineer, so I don't know the details of that, but it's a factor in total societal costs/gains from these systems, and I'd like to know more. <br /><br />Another potential cost/savings is in the distribution lines. The cost (fixed and maintenance) are tied to the revenue those lines generate. If a lot of people on a line went to solar, then the line would be operating at a loss (which would be a subsidy to the solar folks at the cost of others). I don't have a quantitative feel for that either.StormCchaserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02998174514362089471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-23445914359769743712014-08-01T10:39:55.117-06:002014-08-01T10:39:55.117-06:00So when are you going to put that Wind Turbine up ...So when are you going to put that Wind Turbine up like that guy off of I84 between Micron and Mountain Home used to have? He had it turning the meter backwards. <br /><br />FYI, he did have a heart attack climbing those tall towers though (he died) and BSU took it over for their engineering program after that. Been years since I've been over that way, but I think it may have been dismantled.<br /><br />He told us on an HP/IEEE engineering field trip how much he spent on those surplus turbines. I forget the exact amount, but I think it was several hundred thousand (he had family investors). He did have to rig special cranes and design towers to get them up in the air. He was self-taught (grew up as farm boy type) that was creative but did things no college educated EE or ME would ever do. It was a challenge to figure out his setup since it was so unorthodox.<br /><br />Maybe you could start a power plant co-op with the neighbors.<br />:-)<br /><br /><br />whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10067896665279403979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-71326409219589527642014-08-01T08:13:02.292-06:002014-08-01T08:13:02.292-06:00Mauser: nothing is installed yet.
StormCchaser: t...Mauser: nothing is installed yet.<br /><br />StormCchaser: the system is not a grid-tie--strictly substituting power from the solar panels for power from the grid. Because I already have a transfer switch in place for the backup generator to prevent power from going back to the grid, I believe that my electrician can plug the output of the inverter directly into the bus on my electrical panel, with very little effort.<br /><br />Installation will be putting some brackets on the roof, running the cables, and drilling a hole. This doesn't seem very expensive, especially because much of this I can do my self.<br /><br />The cost of PV panels has dropped a lot.<br /><br />I don't see that for a small system like this that there is going to be a lot of running the meter backward, so that simplifies installation a good bit.Clayton Cramerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03258083387204776812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-40820192917552895352014-08-01T01:12:10.455-06:002014-08-01T01:12:10.455-06:00Do you have a bidirectional meter installed yet?Do you have a bidirectional meter installed yet?Mauserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11732614352398473302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-82544675788039964062014-07-31T18:46:58.297-06:002014-07-31T18:46:58.297-06:00I will be very interested in the outcome. Your sys...I will be very interested in the outcome. Your system price seems very low - it looks to me like a grid-connected system usually costs about $4.50 per peak watt of which only $1 is for the panels. Yours is closer to $2.00 for the whole thing, with $1.5 for the panels. However, it appears that system installation may be a big part of that delta.<br /><br />It will also be interesting to see how much power (okay, energy) you actually get compared to your calculations.<br /><br /><br />Do your calculations include payment for power fed back into the system (which is a big hidden subsidy in most states) or are you just accounting for solar substituted for grid power to you?<br /><br />I used a system design program for here in Arizona, where we have a lot more sunlight. My costs came out to about $5/peak-W for a big system (40kW). I didn't calculate subsidies - it wasn't even close to break even.<br /><br />Anyway, looking forward to seeing how this works out - please post as you learn more and get experience with it. Hopefully it will be a good deal.StormCchaserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02998174514362089471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2807403883562053852.post-37675233588032592772014-07-31T16:11:01.047-06:002014-07-31T16:11:01.047-06:00UPDATE 5: But ... but ... she's making COFFEE!...UPDATE 5: But ... but ... she's making COFFEE!Cincinnatushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10424218376882403880noreply@blogger.com